Alongside your irregularly-scheduled Green Tape programming, we will also be posting Right of Way episodes and transcripts here.
In this episode, we discuss:
How the Senate permitting deal speaks to affordability concerns
Why waiting for next Congress is a mistake
The New Dem priorities that show up in BAAJA, from permit certainty to data centers
Silicorn Valley
Thomas: Welcome back to Right of Way, a podcast about energy policy, energy politics, and above all the current permitting reform negotiations. I’m Thomas Hochman, consultant and non-resident senior fellow at the Foundation for American Innovation, and I’m joined by Pavan Venkatakrishnan, consultant and fellow at the Searchlight Institute.
We started this podcast more than a year ago with one goal in mind: to cover Congress’s efforts to cut a bipartisan permitting reform deal. We’ve talked about the policy issues in play, the politics of the deal, and covered the bills that shaped the debate along the way.
Now, finally, after many months of deliberations, the deal is out, with the Senate’s Bipartisan American Affordability and Jobs Act.
We’re not going to get too deep into the policy minutiae today. For listeners, we’ll leave some links to our favorite writeups in the transcript we publish on Green Tape. But suffice to say that we’re thrilled with the product. Along every vertical, from transmission to judicial review to permit certainty, the negotiators in Congress have met the moment.
The question now is whether the deal will pass. We’re recording this in mid-October, after both the Senate and the House have left until after the midterms, meaning that voting won’t come until the lame duck. And as we speak, members on both sides of the aisle, in both chambers, are still figuring out their positions on the bill.
Joining us today is a lawmaker who will be critical to getting this deal through the House: Congresswoman Nikki Budzinski. Congresswoman Budzinski represents Illinois’s 13th District and is Vice Chair for Policy of the New Democrat Coalition, the 114-member bloc that forms the largest ideological caucus among House Democrats. We’re thrilled she’s joining us.
Congresswoman Budzinski, welcome to Right of Way.
Congresswoman Budzinski: Thanks for having me, Thomas. Great to be with you.
Thomas: So you spent much of this year co-chairing Leader Jeffries’s working group on gas and utility prices. I know this issue of energy affordability has been a major focus for all sorts of members, both in the Senate and the House, and in particular a major focus for you in recent years. When you look at the Senate deal, how much of it speaks to the concerns that you’re hearing from constituents at home?
Congresswoman Budzinski: Well, the affordability crisis that’s happening in our country is something Leader Jeffries is obviously very sensitive to, and it’s something I was a part of with Congressman Mike Levin. We were appointed to the gas and utilities working group for him, specifically targeted at how we’re going to bring down costs. We know that 83% of Americans across the country say they are very concerned about their utility bills.
Through the working group, we talked about permitting reform and the need to get that done, the need for investment in our grid, and also practical solutions we could take action on immediately, things like investing in and expanding LIHEAP and getting the weatherization programs back online. From a Democratic caucus perspective, Mike and I really zeroed in on those.
So I’m actually very encouraged by what I’ve seen in BAAJA: investing in transmission, building more energy projects quicker, streamlining that process. We talked about data centers in our working group as well, making sure that they pay a thousand percent of their fair share, and that’s also in BAAJA. So there are a lot of great crossover points between what Mike Levin and I were trying to highlight in our working group document and what is now reflected in BAAJA. That’s why I’m particularly excited about what I’ve seen come out of the Senate deal.
Pavan: That’s great. Congresswoman, you brought labor into these conversations about energy affordability. Before you came to Congress, you worked at Climate Jobs Illinois, where you rallied the trades behind Illinois’s big climate law. What do you hear from workers about the cost of projects being delayed or canceled, and where could this deal, BAAJA, really make a difference?
Congresswoman Budzinski: Well, thanks, Pavan, and thank you to you too for having me on. I think what I hear is on a couple of different fronts. First of all, going back to the Inflation Reduction Act, there’s the loss of those tax credits for building out many of these energy projects, specifically the clean and renewable energy projects that were terminated. They estimate that nationally, that’s been directly attributed to the loss of about 122,000 jobs.
These are good-paying jobs. And Pavan, you make the point about the work I did with Climate Jobs Illinois. We did a lot of work to make sure that these aren’t just any old jobs. These are good-paying jobs, many times union jobs that pay middle-class wages with benefits. So we lost 122,000 jobs when the Trump administration and Republicans decided to terminate the tax credits out of the IRA. It also led to the loss of about $18 billion in economic activity.
I make that point because while we were making some good progress in energy generation, creating jobs, and building out this clean energy economy, over the last two years we’ve really been at a stalemate. And we talked a little bit earlier about affordability. Across the board, utility bills have increased by about 16% over these last two years, and I think that’s directly attributable to the fact that we’ve lost these credits and this buildout. BAAJA allows us an opportunity to get back on track: investing in project certainty, building bigger projects, and doing it at a more accelerated rate. That will lead not just to a decrease in utility bills, but will generate a lot of good-paying union jobs that are going to build out that clean energy future.
Let me give you just one other example from my district, because there were some other things beyond the tax credits that we lost with the erosion of the Inflation Reduction Act. When we’re talking about decarbonization, which we all want and are moving toward: Kraft Heinz is one of the bigger employers in my district, and they had won a big federal grant, $34 million, to decarbonize their plants. That too was eliminated. So on the path to decarbonization and building out, we’ve lost some ground over these last two years. But again, what’s exciting is getting back on track. There are good reasons to be excited about what’s in BAAJA to get us back on track on both of those things: generating more energy and creating good-paying jobs.
Thomas: So here we are in the middle of October, and the midterms are less than three weeks away. One of the big debates right now, particularly on the Democratic side, seems to be about timing. Some have argued that Democrats ought to wait until next Congress, when they feel they may have more leverage. Other Democrats say, “Look, you’ll have to convince me that a better deal will actually be available down the line.” How do you weigh the argument that Dems should wait against the opportunity to get a deal done now?
Congresswoman Budzinski: I think there’s a fierce urgency of now on this issue. And I say that because of what we were talking about earlier in the conversation: affordability, and utility bills that are rising. I represent communities in central and southern Illinois that, quite frankly, can’t wait. They need to see relief now.
The reality as well is that even if Democrats take back the House and the Senate, in order to get any piece of legislation through the Senate, we’re going to need 60 votes. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that no matter how good of a night we have in November, we’re probably going to need a few Republicans to get to 60 votes. And then we want to see the president sign this.
So I would just say to you, Thomas, I’m less interested in serving in Congress just to do messaging bills. I really want to get things done, and I think we have to take moments of opportunity where we see them. I’m excited about BAAJA. It could potentially be that opportunity to not just pass something out of the House, but get 60 votes in the Senate, get it to the president’s desk, and have him sign it. And I think it will provide real relief to my constituents who are looking for their utility bills to go down and who are struggling with that pressure every day.
Like I said, now is the time to act. I think waiting is a mistake. And for folks at home who feel like Washington is a broken place, this is an opportunity for us to show that we can work together and deliver for our constituents.
Pavan: Absolutely. So the New Dems could be quite important to building a majority for this deal, with over 100 members, as Thomas noted. As the coalition’s policy vice chair, how are you and your colleagues approaching it? Are there any parts of the package that offer a really strong basis for getting House Democrats on board?
Congresswoman Budzinski: The New Democrat Coalition has been engaged in permitting reform for many, many years. Congressman Scott Peters has been leading our clean energy working group. When BAAJA was initially released, we put out an encouraging statement about what we were seeing, and as a coalition of 114 members, we’re now going through the process of educating members on where the bill stands and what’s in it, and answering questions.
But I will tell you that some of the things the New Dems have previously put out as important to any good permitting reform deal, you can find in BAAJA. I would highlight a few specific topics.
One, obviously, is permit certainty. We need to help ensure that when a project is permitted, it is then built. That kind of certainty and reliability helps build out our clean energy future, which is what we all want. I’m an all-of-the-above Democrat when it comes to building out energy, but we do know that clean energy is the cheapest form of energy right now. If we were to create a world with project certainty or permit certainty, I think we would end up seeing a lot more clean energy projects come online. So that’s one key fundamental piece.
The second, which I’m also encouraged to see addressed in BAAJA, is data centers. It’s the toughest language out there at the federal level on data centers, making sure they pay a thousand percent of their fair share. One of the biggest concerns of my constituents, and these are very valid, real concerns, is that they’d have to pay a single dime more on their utility bill because a data center might come to their community. That should never be the case, and BAAJA has language in there that I think would address those concerns.
A third New Dems issue is grid reliability. We need to see better coordination as we build out and strengthen our grid, and that type of coordination is highlighted in BAAJA. E-permitting, moving to something that’s more cloud-based, is another piece. Public engagement is also very important, and we want to make sure it’s structured in a way that’s the most constructive, so that we’re getting feedback from our communities.
And the last point I would make is acceleration of projects. We have to be building more energy projects and getting our clean energy future online and built at a quicker clip than we’re doing right now. Accelerating that process has been one of the key New Dem principles, and again, I’m encouraged to see it addressed in BAAJA.
Thomas: To your point about permitting certainty protecting all classes of projects: Senator Whitehouse and Senator Heinrich have made the point over and over again that clean energy is competitive, and that means if you’re leveling the playing field, clean energy will be deployed at scale. And it’s not just permitting certainty, but also NEPA reforms and the like that will help accelerate those clean energy projects.
One of the things you mentioned was the transmission side of this deal. Looking at Illinois in particular: last summer, a squeeze on the Midwest grid added something like $45 a month to the typical Ameren Illinois customer’s power bill. A lot of what this bill does to bring down costs comes through that transmission section: building new power lines, planning better across regions, getting new power plants hooked up faster. This is a pretty wonky subject. I still don’t consider myself an expert, and I’m surrounded by grid wonks. So when you’re talking to constituents and working through this language, how do you explain the importance of the grid section and how it works?
Congresswoman Budzinski: What I would say, quite simply, is that when the grid can’t move electricity from where it’s cheap to where it’s needed, a more expensive plant is going to run in its place. And because the grid isn’t built out to move that cheaper energy, we know that costs consumers money. So to your question, Thomas, that’s exactly why you’re seeing the direct connection to increased utility bills.
We need to build out a grid that can move our cheapest form of energy, which, by the way, happens to be our cleaner sources of energy. In 2024, that cost consumers upwards of $12 billion, and that $12 billion is basically paid on utility bills. So investing in the grid is critical.
The positives in BAAJA are that it allows the federal government to approve power lines that get stuck in the state approval process. If a state were to block a line, it gives some additional leverage to get things unlogjammed so we can do that build. It also allows for more regional planning, and that level of coordination and working together within regions would allow for quicker investment in the grid.
That’s how I would talk to my constituents about it. The fact that we haven’t made the investments we need in our grid is directly related to increased utility bills, because it’s a lost opportunity to move cheaper energy to where it needs to be.
Thomas: One other point I would add here: there are so many energy projects that get through the upfront permitting process, which is what we usually mean when we talk about permitting: NEPA, the Endangered Species Act, and so on. And then they’re just sitting there waiting to connect to the grid, because we just don’t have enough lines, plain and simple, to connect them to the places that need the power.
Congresswoman Budzinski: Absolutely.
Pavan: So let’s say this legislation gets done in the lame duck – hopefully. A decade from now, where do you think people will notice its impact first? Is it a transmission line that finally gets built? A new power plant that gets connected to the grid? Maybe a lower electric bill? What does a win look like from this legislation?
Congresswoman Budzinski: A win to me looks like a lower electricity bill. It also looks like making progress toward our decarbonization goals, which I think we can be doing at the same time. And it means creating good-paying jobs in our communities. I think we can do all of that with this deal, and personally, I think it’s very encouraging that we can meet all those metrics.
I give a lot of credit to the Senate negotiators for putting this pretty ambitious negotiation together. We’ll see, as we’re monitoring it, how it moves out of the Senate and into the House. We’re certainly doing our homework on it right now as a coalition. And I’m very encouraged and excited to hopefully see it become a reality.
Pavan: Absolutely. Many observers have bemoaned the fact that the rollout of the investments in the Inflation Reduction Act was stymied by the permitting process. If permitting legislation can get enacted this Congress, how do you think clean energy investments will play out in the future?
Congresswoman Budzinski: I think there will be more certainty and investment. There will be a strategic plan forward as we look to decarbonization and moving to the 100% clean energy economy that we all need, and to our ability to build out and generate the energy we need to remain competitive. For me, that future looks like addressing affordability concerns by lowering utility bills, investing in resiliency and the grid investments that are needed, and generating more energy in a way that’s going to help us tackle some of the biggest challenges we’re going to face in the near future.
Pavan: This is a bipartisan podcast, but as a Democrat, I’m quite excited about the potential for permitting reform to provide the undergirding for the investments Democrats are interested in making in energy. I think that’s why it’s absolutely critical to pass this legislation now. So I’ll just underline and echo your points.
Congresswoman Budzinski: I would agree. One of the things that’s really good about the bill is that it allows for all energy sources. I know some folks see that as good or bad, depending on how you’re looking at it. If you’re looking at it as I am, through more of an affordability lens, it’s about getting our renewables back online so we’re building out clean energy projects again. These last two years have been incredibly difficult, given all of the progress that had been made under the Biden administration. Getting that back on track long term is going to pay dividends and get us back in a direction that builds out the clean energy future we all want. And it gets us out of this winners-and-losers mindset: let the market determine it. If the market is determining what we’re building, it’s going to be clean and renewable.
Thomas: This is, of course, a permitting reform podcast, and permitting reform is certainly driving the news right now. But I know you, and the New Dem Coalition more broadly, have a number of other priorities outside of this negotiation, including on energy. So I’m curious: what else are you working on? What else are you thinking about?
Congresswoman Budzinski: Yeah, thank you for the question. I often talk about my district in central and southern Illinois as Silicorn Valley. I’m one of the co-chairs of the Biofuels Caucus, so I’m very interested in the bioeconomy. My district was one of only 12 under the CHIPS and Science Act that won a Tech Hub designation, a $51 million federal investment. It’s a great story of public-private partnership: we probably had $600 million of private sector investment to go along with the $51 million.
What we’re doing so well in my district is biomanufacturing and fermentation: taking our agricultural waste and, through technology and innovation, rather than that corn and soybean waste ending up in a landfill, spinning it out into yoga pants, or replacements for plastic bottles, or tennis shoes, or pharmaceutical products. There’s a lot. This new bioeconomy is really addressing something we were trying to get at with the CHIPS and Science Act, which is our supply chain vulnerabilities, and onshoring more of that domestically. This is technology and innovation happening right here at home.
And it’s unique for a district like mine, where we grow a lot of corn and soybeans. Our farmers are looking for new markets at a time that is incredibly difficult, when they’re losing traditional markets because of the Trump administration’s tariff and trade policies. The bioeconomy could open up a whole new market and opportunity for them. We often say that if it’s fully realized in my district, it’s a $200 billion new industry. That’s huge. We don’t see those kinds of new, innovative industries coming to our area very often, and I don’t think many districts do.
So this is certainly something I’ve been working on in my office, and also with the New Democrat Coalition. We’re a coalition that doesn’t shy away from innovation, and we don’t believe in the status quo. That’s the kind of mindset we need to take on as Democrats when we get into the majority, hopefully, next year: what are the other ideas like that we want to help incubate?
Thomas: Any particular ongoing or upcoming legislative efforts on bioeconomy policy that we should be looking out for?
Congresswoman Budzinski: Yeah, a couple of things. In particular, I have bills like the BIO Act, which, if appropriated funds, would help the startup environment. How are we helping startup companies when they have ideas in the biomanufacturing space? How do we help them with some seed funding to get off the ground, or to fully develop and realize all that they’re capable of? It’s R&D support for these innovators and small business incubator ideas. At the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, we have a research lab that attracts private sector businesses and public sector partners to work with the university on those kinds of startup ideas. We need a federal partner, so I have legislation that would further invest in those types of R&D ideas.
Thomas: Got it. Congresswoman, we like to end each of our episodes by asking our guests for an energy policy hot take, so we’d be remiss if we didn’t ask you for yours. What’s your hot take?
Congresswoman Budzinski: My hot take would be that the action’s in the Midwest. We’re doing a lot of really innovative things. I talked about Silicorn Valley. We have the farmers who are going to provide the feedstock we need to build out this new innovation and technology. We have the best workforce to build out our clean energy future in our area. And we’re working toward decarbonization, which means also making sure, as part of that success, that we’re addressing affordability and that utility bills are coming down. The way I look at all that’s happening, there’s an intersection to all of it, and the Midwest is where a lot of the action is.
Thomas: Congresswoman Budzinski, thanks so much for joining Right of Way.
Congresswoman Budzinski: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
